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  • How do you feel about the Class-Specific Exotic Primaries and Legendary Secondaries?

    Since I main Warlock, I am in possesion of Tlaloc and Susanoo.

    Tlaloc is such a fun weapon to use. Even though it's perfect for Sunsingers, I had a good deal of fun messing around with it as a Stormcaller. Full Auto would be a great addition to this weapon, as it's a bit annoying to just spam the right trigger on a HroF Scout. Not quite an issue, just an idea. Overall, a really fun weapon to play with. The tradeoff of a Super for a HroF and High Impact Scout is worth it.

    Susanoo, honestly, isn't the best. It's great for a Fusion Rifle, but ultimately it's outclassed by Shotguns and Snipers. The Special ability is really useless, and I'd prefer to see a gun that can switch through elemental types on command (here's looking at you, Murmur.) Overall, a bit of a disappointment.

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    • I think class-specific weapons are ridiculous. I really want to be able to wield Ace of Spades, but it's a Hunter exclusive. I mean, it's a Hand Cannon that makes enemies explode on precision kills. Who thought it was a good idea to give that to Hunters?!

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    • ReDquinox wrote:
      I think class-specific weapons are ridiculous. I really want to be able to wield Ace of Spades, but it's a Hunter exclusive. I mean, it's a Hand Cannon that makes enemies explode on precision kills. Who thought it was a good idea to give that to Hunters?!

      I've got to agree with you, ReD. I really want Stillpiercer, but Bungie just gave Warlocks Susanoo, a Fusion Rifle (which in behalf of most Warlocks, we don't use Fusion Rifles). Tlaloc is very nice, but I would like Fabian Strategy, because it's very good when playing in the Crucible (When you can have 48 bullets, it becomes lethal to many opponents). Overall, Bungie was very stereotypical about the weapons. Auto Rifles and Shotguns for Titans (means strong and built for battle). Hand Cannons and Snipers for Hunters (meaning "stealthty"). Scout Rifles and Fusion Rifles for Warlocks (meaning Magic, I guess). It's cool, but it's unfair for Warlocks/Hunters/Titans that want that weapon, but it's only for a specific class that he/she doesn't use.

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    • ReDquinox wrote:
      I think class-specific weapons are ridiculous. I really want to be able to wield Ace of Spades, but it's a Hunter exclusive. I mean, it's a Hand Cannon that makes enemies explode on precision kills. Who thought it was a good idea to give that to Hunters?!

      You could just get a scout rifle with firefly. Works the same.

      @Derp (lol, nice name bro)

      Stillpeircer seems alright, but there are other weapons that can affect radar rez. I mean, sure, perfectionist is nice if you are a camper (not saying you are), but there are other ways to maximize your sniper ammo comsumtion.

      I think the intent was that, as every acount can have three gaurdians, you would get to use all of the weapons. It is also possible that giving one class the "natural" strengths of another would be a bit overpowered.

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    • Yes, but do I want a Scout Rifle when there's a Hand Cannon available? No, because Hand Cannons kick ass.

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    • Also, Immobius + Year 2 No Backup Plans + Weapons Of Light = THUNDERDOME.

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    • ReDquinox wrote:
      Yes, but do I want a Scout Rifle when there's a Hand Cannon available? No, because Hand Cannons kick @#%.

      Do you know if other hand cannons can get fire fly?

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    • Knight of glory's rise wrote:

      ReDquinox wrote:
      Yes, but do I want a Scout Rifle when there's a Hand Cannon available? No, because Hand Cannons kick @#%.

      Do you know if other hand cannons can get fire fly?

      There's The Vanity, from FWC. The vendor version of it has Firefly

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    • Problem is, I'm a member of the New Monarchy.

      Also, Knight, did you censor the word "ass"? Really?

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    • Well, you can always try to get lucky with the rolls on that NM Hand Cannon if it would drop for you.

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    • ReDquinox wrote:
      Problem is, I'm a member of the New Monarchy.

      Also, Knight, did you censor the word "@#%"? Really?

      You can always switch to FWC, then go back at the end of the week. And yes. Yes, I did.

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    • This is fun.

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    • Knight of glory's rise wrote:

      ReDquinox wrote:
      Problem is, I'm a member of the New Monarchy.

      Also, Knight, did you censor the word "@#%"? Really?

      You can always switch to FWC, then go back at the end of the week. And yes. Yes, I did.

      Problem is, we care about the lore. Thus we will not allow ourselves to betray the cov- I mean faction we have chosen.

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    • Why would you censor the word "ass"?

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    • Inquisitor01 wrote:

      Knight of glory's rise wrote:

      ReDquinox wrote:
      Problem is, I'm a member of the New Monarchy.

      Also, Knight, did you censor the word "@#%"? Really?

      You can always switch to FWC, then go back at the end of the week. And yes. Yes, I did.
      Problem is, we care about the lore. Thus we will not allow ourselves to betray the cov- I mean faction we have chosen.

      Do not your three guardians each have thier own faction?

      @ReD- I think it is rather uncouth and goes against my sense of style.

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    • No, NM ftw.

      Also, I said it, not you. So I really don't see why that is a good reason to censor my use of the word "ass".

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    • Hehehe

      He said ass

      Comedy gold

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    • ReDquinox wrote:
      No, NM ftw.

      Also, I said it, not you. So I really don't see why that is a good reason to censor my use of the word "%&#".

      Oh my.

      Terribly sorry for the late reply. The way I was raised, I find it extremely pleasureable to remove such excessive use of that sort of word from anywhere around me, when I can help it. 

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    • I see. You're a child, then.

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    • Oh snap!

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    • I understand that most people think it's not really a serious thing to overuse strong language. And I might have to agree with that. It really is not that serious. But useing it to often makes it such that it can't really serve it's intended purpose anymore. That being, to lend extra weight to a specific statement, or grab attention. If people are always throwing explatives around, they are useless. I think you are destroying what was a viable facet of the english language. This is going to sound a bit odd to you, but I think of countering overuse as a service to the community.

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    • Yeah, definitely a child. You're using refined vocabulary to appear as an adult, but this is obviously something only a child would do. Besides, that's hardly its intended purpose. Especially considering I'm not even writing a rant. I'm just using the word "ass" in the saying "kicking ass". Also, "ass", as it so happens, is a perfectly normal word you can even find in a dictionary.

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    • Sharp one, arn't ya? 

      You're right. I am relativly young. Depending on your age, you might call me a child. And, again, you are right, I do think use of such language is amoral. It is not specifically for any reason having to do with the word itself, but is born out of my repect for my parents opionions and dictates.

      I was also feeling rather defensive at the time of my last post, and I will freely acknowledge that embelishment of speech is a way of putting up a wall between myself and someone I feel threatened by.

      Regardless (Regaurdless?) of my age, I don't think that I am any less right or wrong than you. I do respect your experience, if you are actually older than me.

      Morality aside, I think we have lost something valuble with the inclusion of powerful explatives in every day life. If you stub your foot, I don't think you should shout one such word. But if you are about to stab your fathers murderer through the heart, yeah, you might be justified in calling him a dog (or something stronger. You get it). Over-use makes the times when you actually NEED a powerful explative seem lacking. Then what dod you do? You just use more explatives. Then people just think your throwing a fit. But in that circumstance, what else can one do?

      So... do you disagree?

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    • If you're on the morality trail, there should be no "need" for a powerful explative at any time. If you were to look about a thousand years into the past, you wouldn't see many nobles using insults in the first place. But that's the nobles. If you were to look at the common rabble, however, it would become apparent that use of graphic language has actually only become more courteous over the ages.

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    • I'm not certain I understand what you're saying. In a perfect world, one wouldn't need negative language of any kind. That's the first part, right? But I'm not certain why the fudal sociaty references came in. Could you resay that?

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    • You're complaining about how we use too many curses, right? That we use them so often that they're useless when we actually "need" them? And that the English language has deteriorated because of it?

      Well, then you should know that there is no real "need" for them to begin with. At any time. If you're so dead set on censoring even the word "ass", then there should be no need for you to use them at any time.

      Then there's how the English language hasn't deteriorated a bit. In fact, it has improved. Just look at the language use of peasants in the medieval era. Or the renaissance, hell, even at the time of the French Revolution.

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    • I am complaining (Though I hate to say it that way, maybe "bewailing?" lol) about how many curses we use, but perhaps the term "need" was a bit to severe. I ment to say that when you really want to add weight to a satement, you can't, because one of the resources for doing so is gone. Perhaps you could do so by other means, of course, but... yeah.

      As such, you are correct, I don't need to use them at any time, and as such, I do not use them ever.

      I do not know how people spoke during the medieval era, the renaissance, or the Frenc revolution. Can you sight your sources, so that I may look at them?

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    • Sources? Any history book will do.

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    • Erm... not so far as I've read. Can you name one of those history books?

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    • If you want to read foreign history books, that's fine by me.

      S Muller, "Schetsen uit de middeleeuwen"

      F van der Pol, "Duistere Middeleeuwen in het licht: kerkgeschiedenis van de Middeleeuwen, een aanbeveling voor wie de Reformatie zijn toegedaan"

      Gustav Schnurer, "Kerk en beschaving in de middeleeuwen"

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    • As these books are, I believe, Dutch, they do not apply to our current discussion, as far as I can tell. Do you have any English sources?

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    • Why would they not apply, exactly? You think the medieval era was all that different in the Netherlands? If anything, the people here were more civilised. Back then, England was inhabited by Gaelic tribes. They can hardly be considered civilised folk, even by medieval standards.

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    • I was under the impression that we were having a duscussion about the english language. I'm sorry. Anyway, what language you speak fails to have a meaningful impact on my point. Explatives coulds still be better used.

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    • It has an impact on your statement that language has deteriorated.

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    • Granted. Language in general has, it seems, deteriorated, if your sources are to be trusted and, as you seem honest, I must assume that they are. However, the English language in specific is another matter. This aside, my other point stands.

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    • No, it has not deteriorated. It has improved.

      Also, your other point doesn't stand at all. We're not overusing swears. They hardly add any weight to a statement to begin with. Then there's the fact that there is no real "need" for them at any time, which means that "wanting to add weight to a statement being impossible" is not a valid reason not to use them. As you said yourself, there are other ways of adding desired weight to a statement.

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    • Hmmm I thought that this was a discussion about class specific weapons . When did it become a discussion about the use of expletives .

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    • When he started censoring the word "ass".

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    • Lol

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    • Mr. 64.188 has a point. Perhaps we could continue this elsewhere?

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    • Who knew that saying ass could end up with discussions about european history and the evolution of the english language.

      On the topic of class specific weapons, I'm fine with them as long as none of them are over powered. I have played with all the class specific weapons and they are all pretty average. Ace of Spades is good but the reload is a bit slow, Tlaloc is an average scout rifle until you have your super ...... they all have their weakness.

      The good thing about class specific weapons is that they promote playing on all three different classes, meaning that players experience the full game.

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    • Yeah, but Hunters suck. Why would they force me to play the shittiest class if I want Ace of Spades?

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    • That's your opinion. The majority of destiny players don't mind or actually like playing as a hunter and class specific weapons encourage them to create and level up their character.

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    • Those that do play Hunters usually only play them because they're overpowered. And now, they've got Ace of Spades. Way to make them even more overpowered. This is not encouraging, this is forcing everyone to play one class if they want to be successful in PvP.

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    • Are you really saying that hunters are overpowered in PvP when titans have sunbreaker and warlocks have Stormcaller? Titans and warlocks can be just as powerful. Ace of spades really isn't that overpowered, its a nice gun but its nothing game breaking like thorn used to be.

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    • There is nothing as unfairly imbalanced as the Bladedancer. Literally nothing even stands a chance against them.

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    • I would point out that sunbreakers are just as unbalanced. You can at least run away from blade dancers or snipe them if you're good enough, but sunbreakers have huge amounts of health and good range too.

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    • Both bladedancers and sunbreakers contend for the PvP crown of "most broken", with gunslingers being a close second.

      If arc blade was readusted to fit the subclass more (sneaky-stabby, rather than fucking impossible to hit and/or kill) I'd be happy.

      In other words, give them less health in their supers, reduce the tracking from godmode to normal on arc blade, only allow them to swing the thing if they're in range of a kill, not in the open, and generally encourage them to sneak around behind the enemy before going to town, rather than charging a gunline laughing at the other team's feeble attempts to hit and/or damage them.


      As for sunbreakers, they definitly need a nerf, but I probably disagree with most on how to do so.

      While I'm probably gonna catch a lot of flak for saying this, I dont think their toughness needs to be reduced. I know that it takes a lot of skill to land a headshot with a sniper rifle on a rapaging super, but no matter the target's aim, I dont want my super to be put down by a single shot from a special weapon. Shotguns dont do that, fusion rifles dont do that, sidearms definitly dont do that, so sniper rifles shouldn't either. While snipers take a lot of skill, all primary and special weapons should take more than one shot to put down a titan in it's super. And I dont say that because "titan master race", I say that because titans are the "tanks" of the game, even their most offensive subclass is generally tougher than most other classes. In my openion, the things that should end supers the most are:

      1) Combined fire from multiple players.

      2) Application of heavy ammo to the face.

      3) Another super.

      4) Getting outplayed and looking like a noob.

      Not "I shot you with my backup weapon once, so now you are die".

      As for the actual changes I believe need to made to the sunbreaker, I'd recommend making their hammers much less rapid fire, so they have to carefully place them rather than carpet bomb half the damn map, and making them kill others in their supers in two hits rather than one.


      As far as gunslingers go, the only thing OP about them is their super.

      The only change I want for them is to make golden gun very innacurate while hip firing, and give it a long ADS time so gunslingers have to line up their shots, and give their target time to react, rather than rounding a corner and melting someone across the map without even aiming.

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    • I think that if you have enough skill to hit a headshot on a sunbreaker titan with a sniper, you should be rewarded with a kill. Either they have to have their health reduced or their speed cut a lot. Making so they can't sprint or jump would be a good idea as it would mean the player would have to be clever about when they activate the super. 

      I don't have as much of a problem with gunslingers because the rest of their skills aren't very good. Throwing knife isn't a one shot. I think just removing some of the aim assisstance on golden gun and making the rate of fire slightly slower.

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    • I don't think GG needs a nerf so much as a tradeoff. Sacrifice some hipfire accuracy, some ADS speed, but add some more time to the bar (it depletes slower) and a slight armor buff.

      As for Sunbreakers, I can see Bungie going very overboard with a nerf. I think that nerfing hammer damage is unnecessary. Slow down the rate of fire, remove the damn health regeneration. 

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    • Do sunbreakers really get HP R when ulting? I thought it was just damage reduction. 

      Hammer of soul is not actually a very long duration ultimate. It can get that way if you are using specific talents, but if you are not, you will only be able to throw three-five hammers.

      I think hammer of soul is a bit harder to use than golden-gun/Arc-blade/Stromcaller-Whatevertheheckitis because the hammers you chuck are easier to miss than all these other abilities. Golden Gun is hit scan. Arc blade is Arc blade... The Stormcaller ult is practically auto target at close range to mid range. 

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    • Stormcaller takes multiple hits to kill any enemy that's not a thrall/ psion/ dreg/ goblin.

      The Hammer of Sol has Tracking on its hammers. Any shuck can throw one and make a kill. There is an HP res on kill, in addition to the damage reduction. There's a perk in the tree which makes the time on the hammers last a good bit longer (6-7 hammers possible.)

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    • Hammer tracking is a skill tree perk, as is health reset and extra hammer duration. You don't get all three. Ever.

      I thought stormcaller in pvp was instant kill. If it isn't it might as well be.

      True, in PvE it does not insta kill, but neither does hammer of sol.

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    • Knight of glory's rise wrote:
      Hammer tracking is a skill tree perk, as is health reset and extra hammer duration. You don't get all three. Ever.

      I thought stormcaller in pvp was instant kill. If it isn't it might as well be.

      True, in PvE it does not insta kill, but neither does hammer of sol.


      1) From personal experince, all sunbreakers (including myself) either use bigger explosions and tracking (me), or sunspots and more duration.

      2) Hammer of sol is an instant kill if you're in the blast, including on full health supers (which is broken).

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    • So... what do all the perks of the other classes do?

      Additionally, can not all other supers insta-kill an ulting sunbreaker?

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    • The only supers that can insta-kill a sunbreaker are fist of havoc and nova bomb, via dealing ALL the damage.

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    • Sun breakers need a major nerf. They ruin the crucible and trails in a way that no other subclass ever has. I have been in games where the only reason we won was because we had more sunbreakers than the other team. They either need to have majorly reduced speed, health or damage output. Reducing speed is probably the best option because they are still usable but require more planning to use.

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    • Reduced speed wouldn't be so bad.

      There is one more thing though. Titans already have two extremely situational supers. Fist of havoc is... meh. Just a melee warlock ult. Then there is Ward of Dawn, the only purely defensive (without weapons of light/Helm O' 14) super in the game. Contrast this with the (usually) insta kill hunter ults, and the one ranged nuke and the two sustainabule damage/durability warlock ults, and you begin to see why Titans needed something that they could go on a killing spree with. Without it, they could never match a hunter or even a sunsinger for widespread offensive cababilities.

      As a result, over all, I can understand the step they took to give titans a nice killing spree ult. Then, this brings up the question "Phil: Okay, so now like, all the classes have sustained swaths of destruction they can activate, which one do we want to have the most damage redux? Steve: Uh... titans, because they are supposed to be the toughest. Phil: Yeah, that seems logical." I mean, what else can you do in this situation? 

      Not even golden gun can kill an ulting SB? Well... huh. I suppose Bingie did that because GG is easier to hit (as long as the SB has no tracking hammers) and hitscan. If it could, a sunbreaker would never win. You would just come around the corner and "POW!" your dead. Again.

      Did you mean Trails (as in, pathways) or Trials (as in, ordeals/Trials of Osiris?)

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    • Trials of Osiris.

      I can understand your point but instead on giving an overpowered super, they should be buffing the other two supers so that they are more powerful. You could make so that the defender titans bubble could be moved though the titan would have reduced speed and the fist of havoc could have a larger blast radius.

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    • For the information of those uninformed, nither of the other titan subclasses can be one-shotted by golden gun or similar while in their supers. As a seasoned titan veteran from launch to the present, I can say with near-certinty that both strikers without extra toughness while fist-of-havocing, and defenders with armour of light and force barrier active take two seperate golden gun shots/arc blade strikes/sunsinger slaps/sniper shots/shotgun blasts/fusion rifle bursts/rockets-to-the-face to kill (actually more like 3 to 4 slaps/snipes/shotguns/fusions).

      Thus is my reasoning for the toughness on sunbreakers: Titans have always been tough-as-nails in their supers, this just hasn't been realised as strikers have literally one second to enjoy it, and defenders not only need two seprate buffs, but also get their bubbles popped and killed by literally every other super in the game.

      Sunbreakers are the the first titan subclass who can take this exceptional toughness for a spin via a "drawn out super" rather than one-second-ride, or staying in one place and dying.

      Altough they could stand to loose the health regen on a super kill. Grenade and meele kills are fine.

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    • I have no problem with striker and defender titans not being a one shot by golden gun when using their super but when a roaming super isn't a one shot then I have a problem. Golden gun is meant to shut down high priority targets such as guardians with heavy ammunition and roaming supers. The big thing about golden gun is that though it has only three shots, it can kill any target (in the crucible).

      Sunbreaker can kill anywhere in between 3 to 10 people per super, especially if it used well. What I would recommend would be buffing golden gun's damage but reducing its rate of fire. That way it would always be a one shot but make hunters have to be more careful and not go in guns blazing. They should also increase the animation time for summoning golden gun so that you really need to be in a safe place when you activate it.

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    • Riskcity wrote:
      I have no problem with striker and defender titans not being a one shot by golden gun when using their super but when a roaming super isn't a one shot then I have a problem. Golden gun is meant to shut down high priority targets such as guardians with heavy ammunition and roaming supers. The big thing about golden gun is that though it has only three shots, it can kill any target (in the crucible).

      Sunbreaker can kill anywhere in between 3 to 10 people per super, especially if it used well. What I would recommend would be buffing golden gun's damage but reducing its rate of fire. That way it would always be a one shot but make hunters have to be more careful and not go in guns blazing. They should also increase the animation time for summoning golden gun so that you really need to be in a safe place when you activate it.

      I've been playing warlock since week one of destiny, and hunters ruined by early experiences in crucible just through their use of overpowered supers, especially bladedance. To this day I still resent them for being utterly op, but now I don't even go into Iron Banner or Trials because now instead of one overpowered class we have two. Sunbreakers and Bladedancers are both game breaking supers, and as for golden gun I strongly agree with Zero on his statement about it, majority of the time hunters are always hip firing with it because there isn't a significant accuracy drop off otherwise. Being a Sunsinger such as myself I always find that my super is very insignificant in comparison to not only the three mentioned above, but quite litteraly every other super in the game as well. 

      Most supers can one shot a max toughness build Sunsinger in radiance, I know this from expierience. Only Stormcallers, Defenders, and other Sunsingers take a considerably longer period of time to kill a Sunsinger in Radiance. Stormcallers less so becayse all they need to do is keep the beam of lightning on one for a few seconds and the threat will have been dealt with. As for defenders, a Sunsinger can expend grenades at his bubble continuously until it is down but this usually takes the entire duration of Radiance to do. Going into the bubble is another alternative but is in no way any better, as any competent Defender Titan equiped with armor, or blessing of light can usually melee spam the the Sunsinger to death as the overshield prevents a one shot melee kill from the warlock in question.

      Against another Sunsinger a fight between the two in Radiance can last until both of their supers have run out, or the other parishes. In either case, a huge time in Radiance will have been expended trying to kill the other Sunsinger. Now I'm not complaining about this, I actually quite enjoy a long duel between a fellow Sunsinger in PvP, I'm just stating what I have expierienced from playing Cruicible as a Sunsinger.

      With Radiance the Sunsinger is usually better at comabatting other players who either are not in their supers, or don't have heavy ammo. Although, combined fire from primary weapons or sustained fire from special weapons will kill one rather quickly. I for one am stunned that a max toughness build Radiance can be killed in one shot from any sniper rifle.

      Furthermore, hit detection for grenades and melee attacks in my expieriences is utter garbage, in recent gameplay I recall that 4 of my scorch melees did absolutely no damage, and one of my fusion grenades that I saw stick to a target and detonate did zero damage to my selected target; take in mind that all of this happened in one match of Rumble. 

      Now, in no way do Sunsingers need a buff(They are a skill oriented class focused around tactical versitility they're not meant to be anything more than a slightly tougher and stronger warlock). I just feel as though supers need to be rebalanced as a whole seeing as though Bladedance and Hammer of Sol dominate the competition. 

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    • Riskcity wrote:
      I have no problem with striker and defender titans not being a one shot by golden gun when using their super but when a roaming super isn't a one shot then I have a problem. Golden gun is meant to shut down high priority targets such as guardians with heavy ammunition and roaming supers. The big thing about golden gun is that though it has only three shots, it can kill any target (in the crucible).

      Sunbreaker can kill anywhere in between 3 to 10 people per super, especially if it used well. What I would recommend would be buffing golden gun's damage but reducing its rate of fire. That way it would always be a one shot but make hunters have to be more careful and not go in guns blazing. They should also increase the animation time for summoning golden gun so that you really need to be in a safe place when you activate it.


      I disagree. No titan in it's super should be one-shotted by golden gun. Against sunbreakers, it's merely a tactical choice: either dont engage the breaker, and conserve ammo, or commit two shots to taking it out. The hunter can simply snap off two shots before the titan can loose a hammer and move on. Most gunslingers I encounter are either smart and shoot twice before I can react, or eat hammer as they stare dumbfounded at my sliver of remaining health, their cocky minds too used to one-shotting whatever they feel like, and padding their KDs with three cheap kills.

      Asides, if you're so conserned with ammo expendature, just equip acloyophage symboite, and go nuts with four golden gun shots. Every other cheesemongering gunslinger does.

      On the note of hunters, while I believe that nightstalkers are wonderful in concept and beautifuly executed, I do have one small problem with them:

      Quiver

      While the concept of more shadowshots is cool, most people use this perk merely for its potential to bag three kills. In my openion, if you're going to play support, you naturally have to sacrifice your heavy offensive capability. So instead of wiping the entire enemy team in an elimination match, It should allow you to lockdown a wider area.

      The only nerf I want here is to make quiver shadowshots deal 1/2 damage, so it takes two shots to kill with them rather than one. This way, nightstalkers support role will be enforced across their entire class, rather than giving them the option to just go straight for kills.

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    • Just to note, I have been a warlock since day one though I play with all three classes. Subclasses need to be balanced throughout the whole game not just the crucible. Subclasses which are powerful in the crucible should be not be as useful in PvE content and vice versa. This is where I have problems with sunbreaker. The subclass is good in both PvE and PvP

      As for gunslinger not one shotting sunbreaker, I would been fine with this if sunbreaker wasn't able to wipe out entire teams twice, as I did myself yesterday in crucible. If sunbreaker wants to be a tank then that's fine but it shouldn't be able to zip around the map. The class needs a nerf to speed.

      As for hunters using quiver to increase damage, I don't think you'll ever get bungie to change that as they would get a huge backlash from all the hunters in the community. Nightstalker was meant to be a support class but not many hunters actually use it like that because, well, they're hunters.

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    • A speed nerf to sunbreakers is certinly agreeable, and I'd have no objections to such as long as it isn't rediculous.

      As for the nightstalkers, tis just whishful thinking. I'm well aware that the community would bitch and moan to no end if their precious damage potential was nerfed even slightly.

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    • Hunters will always believe it is their right to be the best class.

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    • Riskcity wrote:
      Hunters will always believe it is their right to be the best class.


      Because most of them are played by eliteist MLG airheads with no respect for balance.

      Not all, but most.

      Fuckin hunters.

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    • Why do you think PvE even really matters? I understand that many people play it, as do I quite often, but if your sqaudmate has an ultimate that is good, your gonna be like "Nice work man. Now I don't have to fight that room full of Captains! Thanks!" Not "Wow, mine would have done so much less damage. YOU NEED A NERF!" Ult power is nothing to get upset about when it is on your side.

      This is the problem as I see it. Both Golden Gun and Hammer of Sol are very powerful supers. However, neither one can take out the other 100% of the time. Golden Gun can take out a Hammer of Sol in two shots. Hammer of Sol has a higher chance to miss. Golden gun can take out 4 targets consistently. Hammer of Sol can take out 10 inconsistently. Both classes think that thier ult should work regardless of the others. In all honesty, if a Sunbreaker, a Gunslinger, and a Nightstalker came into an arena at the same time, there is no telling which would win. If the Gunslinger fired at the Titan first, the Gunsligner would probably win. Two to the titan. One to the Nightstalker. Problem solved. If the Titan and the Gunsliger were close together, the Nightstalker would probably win. Supress them both, and have the advantage. Problem solved. If the Sunbreaker managed to land a hammer on the Gunsliger and hope the Nightstalker missed, the Sunbreaker would probably win. Seems to me they're quite nearly balanced.

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    • My thing isn't with PvE but with the whole game. Subclasses should be either good in PvP or good in PvE. This way, you use certain subclasses in certain scenarios. If a subclass is really good in both PvP and PvE then players don't have to think about which subclass to use and certain subclasses are rarely used (striker titan). This is a waste and makes the game less varied and interesting.

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    • I see your point, but I don't think making one less powerful than the other is the way to get people to vary thier use of class. I use striker in PvP when I am looking to Sword a lot of things. I use defender when we are defending an objective, in PvE or PvP. I use striker again if I need to get dem arc sheilds down. I use Sunbreaker if I am fighting waves of semi-weak enemies. 

      Also, there are players out there who do not have Xbox Live Gold. If one class was only good in PvP, they would never use it. Then it's just kind of lame for them for no reason that has any impact on thier gaming.

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    • In a perfect world, every subclass would be useful in both PvP and PvE but what I am suggesting is probably the next best thing, especially for people who play the entire game

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    • So... if perfection is something that works in both, why would you take something that works in both and make it only work in one? Wouldn't that make it less perfect and hence, worse?

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    • I am trying to make it so that all sunclasses are used equally. By having one subclass good in both, players will use that subclass more than others. I'm trying to make it so that all subclasses are equally powerful and have some part of the game in which they are really good.

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    • Riskcity wrote:
      I am trying to make it so that all sunclasses are used equally. By having one subclass good in both, players will use that subclass more than others. I'm trying to make it so that all subclasses are equally powerful and have some part of the game in which they are really good.
      • Gasp* But, if you did that than how on Earth would I get such delicous KD with my Hunter? 
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    • Warboss75 wrote:
      Riskcity wrote:
      I am trying to make it so that all sunclasses are used equally. By having one subclass good in both, players will use that subclass more than others. I'm trying to make it so that all subclasses are equally powerful and have some part of the game in which they are really good.
      • Gasp* But, if you did that than how on Earth would I get such delicous KD with my Hunter? 

      And how would teh inferior titards and warscrubz comprehend teh superiority of the MLG, MVP hunter mastar race?!

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    • Riskcity wrote:
      I am trying to make it so that all sunclasses are used equally. By having one subclass good in both, players will use that subclass more than others. I'm trying to make it so that all subclasses are equally powerful and have some part of the game in which they are really good.

      But then they still won't get used equally. Those without live will use ONLY the PvE ones, and then you have an imbalance.

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    • Riskcity wrote: I am trying to make it so that all sunclasses are used equally. By having one subclass good in both, players will use that subclass more than others. I'm trying to make it so that all subclasses are equally powerful and have some part of the game in which they are really good.

      But it also depends what role it plays in PvE such as the Kings fall raid you're more likely to play defender Titan than striker Titan ,nightstalker hunter rather than bladedancer hunter but let's look at at each individual subclass

      Striker Titan offer more of a close range combat ,fist of havoc Is Great for clearing tight spaces that have lots of adds

      Defender Titan is a support role its a defensive role aka ward of dawn with weapons of light is great for boss damage or in PvP put armor of light and even stormcallers super storm trance will be difficult to kill you


      Sunbreaker Titan : Is a mixture of close range and mid range hammer of sol can be thrown at a distance as well as close quarters also great for clearing adds

      Voidwalker warlock nova bomb is designed to be used at mid range when lots of players or adds are close

      Sunsingers are a support role allowing players to get their supers and grenades back quicker

      Stormcallers stormtrance clears whole rooms of adds and in PvE can wipe most of your team

      Gunslinger golden gun is mostly effective at single target and bosses

      Bladedancer super offers close combat with agility

      Shadowshot from nightstalker is a support role when paired with sunbreakers hammer of sol can prove fatal when a boss is tethered by shadowshot they also take more damage.... I think

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    • Its the darkness!

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    • Fusion Rifles are flat out terrible for PvP the susanoo is no exception (though I think it's perk is supposed to be used for when you have certain burns like arc or void.). The 1000 yard stare is a better sniper than stillpiercer because you can roll unflinching and firefly. The year 2 partycrasher +1 and Conspiracy theory D completely sit on the immobius. The fabian strategy is almost never used (By anyone I've played against). The Tlaloc is OP as long as you have a super but I find it's still easy to counter with good aim and just about any gun. (NOT A SIDEARM) The ace of spades is a decent handcannon but is really average, Firefly is a good perk but seldom actually damages someone, me I prefer my Waterstar or my Eyasluna with luck in the chamber range finder and max stability.

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    • Mr Contact, even though fusion rifles are pretty bad, I find they're fun to play around with in PvP. Susanoo has a very slow charge rate, which is one of its main problems. Things like Murmur, with its high charge rate, are surprisingly fun to play with, even if ineffective.

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    • I have this super fast FR from FWC that has 8 rounds unupgraded. (Not the omolon one)

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    • Name? DLC? Details, please.

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    • (This forum is like the NFL Week 13, they were making field goals at one point, then all went wide. This forum started off as Class weapons, then subclasses, then Fusion rifles? LOL)

      Really, class specific weapons are useless, because it's unfair for Warlocks to get a bad weapon-type. Weapon-types shouldn't be based around Classes, because that's unfair. Although, some Weapon-type combos are great for Subclasses, like:

      Scout and Side weapon-type combo:

        Now you have a medium-long range weapon (pick a fast fire scout) and a short-medium weapon to use in the crucible. I've been using it for a couple of weeks and I've been getting K/D ratios of 2.0 or higher.

      If you guys have any other combos, plz let me know. I'll try them combos.

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    • Derp2000 wrote:
      (This forum is like the NFL Week 13, they were making field goals at one point, then all went wide. This forum started off as Class weapons, then subclasses, then Fusion rifles? LOL)

      Really, class specific weapons are useless, because it's unfair for Warlocks to get a bad weapon-type. Weapon-types shouldn't be based around Classes, because that's unfair. Although, some Weapon-type combos are great for Subclasses, like:

      Scout and Side weapon-type combo:

      Now you have a medium-long range weapon (pick a fast fire scout) and a short-medium weapon to use in the crucible. I've been using it for a couple of weeks and I've been getting K/D ratios of 2.0 or higher.

      If you guys have any other combos, plz let me know. I'll try them combos.

      I find that Quenn breakers with a stable auto rifle make you a demon to the enemy at mid range.

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    • Derp, Use thousand yard stare with armor piercing and Red death with High impact

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    • Meh. Queen breakers feels better. You actaully feel sinister with that. Not the goof who acidentaly dipped his gun in that there paint bucket. :/

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    • OxMr ConflictxO wrote:
      Derp, Use thousand yard stare with armor piercing and Red death with High impact

      I have 1000-Yard Stare, but I don't have the perk, Armor Piercing Rounds, I would also like a Y02 Red Death with the perk, High Calliber Rounds, But I DON'T HAVE ANY!!!! :(

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    • Knight of glory's rise wrote:
      Meh. Queen breakers feels better. You actaully feel sinister with that. Not the goof who acidentaly dipped his gun in that there paint bucket. :/

      I also wish I had that, Knight, but my brother decided, "Oh, lets just get the Lord of Wolves instead Queensbreaker Bow, The best out of the three!!!!!!" 

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    • refresh

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    • Queen breakers isn't all that great derp. Compare it to the hereafter or even the thousand yard and it doesn't compare.

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    • Yeah, I know Conflict. If I was going for competitive, I would definetly use 1000-Yard (bcz I does have it).

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    • It may be better in damage, but is it really better in, say PVP, where you can hardscope for DAAAAAYS and not get noticed. Queenbreakers is a Fusion Rifle, and as such has no scope gleem. A charge time, yes, but no scope gleem. And, even not scoping, you can still one shot kill people with head shots. Or troll other players out on patrol. That works too. :D

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    • Guardian 1: Come on, 10 more dregs left

      You shoot your Queensbreaker bow on accident

      Guardian 1: What the heck was that?

      Guardian starts shooting randomly in the other direction.

      Idea pops into your head.

      Troll begins

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    • My god, TFC broke crucible

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    • TFC, you mean the First Curse? Because it has the highest impact for an Exotic primary weapon, but doesn't freaking do 2 headshot kills. WHAT IN THE WORLD BUNGIE! FIX IT PLZ!

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    • Nope, You people refuse to see that it's only meant to get one headshot kill then switch to a shotgun....

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    • You really think I use a shotgun? I have 1000-Yard stare as my primary special weapon, then my Vortigen-C (sidearm) as my secondary. Please, I hate shotguns. Have you seen me rant about why shotguns should be nerfed?

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    • You realize that when you use a shotgun, you basically handicap yourself from being good. Shotguns are cool, but it's way to overpowered in 6v6 pvp and it's not funny when you just run around with a shotgun all the time. If you're a shotgun user, I'm not ranting about you, just the shotgun part

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    • Derp2000 wrote:
      TFC, you mean the First Curse? Because it has the highest impact for an Exotic primary weapon, but doesn't freaking do 2 headshot kills. WHAT IN THE WORLD BUNGIE! FIX IT PLZ!

      How the hell new are you to destiny? Because if you want a handcannon that two shots, you CLEARLY wern't here to suffer through the THREE MONTHS of acurssed BULLSHIT before blessed 2.0 toppled a pair of two-shot handcannons from their cheese thrones atop mountians of slain players.

      We're talking handcannons SO BROKEN, they became the meta to the point that it was LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to find a match without at least one douche using one. Alawys. Using one against other players not doing so was pretty much INSTANT WIN, unless one of those players was REALLY skilled. And in the end, SO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE hopped on the bandwagon and took up those PILES OF GUN-SHAPED SHIT, that they became the two MOST USED guns in the ENTIRE GAME!

      These two were so OVER-FUCKING-POWERED that the newest, most unskilled little 12 year old shit could pick one up, and UTTERLY DESTROY seasoned pros EVERY SINGLE GAME! I am NOT shitting you! They were an utter SLAP IN THE FACE to time-invested players, and an I WANNA BEAT EVERYONE ELSE WITHOUT TRYING gun for spoiled little shits and douchbags that had the ODACITY to SAY THEY WERE BALANCED!

      So when you ask for a two-shot handcannon?

      Watch. Your. Tounge.

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    • Hand Cannons are the coolest weapons ever, but I agree, two-shots are a ridiculous idea. Unless you're making the rate of fire so low that it doesn't matter in the end.

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    • The only fair type of handcannon that can two shot is one with max impact and luck in the chamber.

      You have ONE random chance to two shot headshot a single player in each clip, rather than being gaurenteed. And, the hand cannons with max impact have the lowest rate of fire, meaning you can't just spam the entire clip as fast as possible. Not to mention that if you miss the headshot, the extra damage wont matter that much.

      Any handcannon that kills in two headshots ALL THE TIME kills too fast for the target to react, and is thusly broken.

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    • NegativeZero.0 wrote:
      Derp2000 wrote:
      TFC, you mean the First Curse? Because it has the highest impact for an Exotic primary weapon, but doesn't freaking do 2 headshot kills. WHAT IN THE WORLD BUNGIE! FIX IT PLZ!
      How the hell new are you to destiny? Because if you want a handcannon that two shots, you CLEARLY wern't here to suffer through the THREE MONTHS of acurssed BULLSHIT before blessed 2.0 toppled a pair of two-shot handcannons from their cheese thrones atop mountians of slain players.

      We're talking handcannons SO BROKEN, they became the meta to the point that it was LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to find a match without at least one douche using one. Alawys. Using one against other players not doing so was pretty much INSTANT WIN, unless one of those players was REALLY skilled. And in the end, SO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE hopped on the bandwagon and took up those PILES OF GUN-SHAPED SHIT, that they became the two MOST USED guns in the ENTIRE GAME!

      These two were so OVER-FUCKING-POWERED that the newest, most unskilled little 12 year old shit could pick one up, and UTTERLY DESTROY seasoned pros EVERY SINGLE GAME! I am NOT shitting you! They were an utter SLAP IN THE FACE to time-invested players, and an I WANNA BEAT EVERYONE ELSE WITHOUT TRYING gun for spoiled sliile shits and douchbags that had the ODACITY to SAY THEY WERE BALANCED!

      So when you ask for a two-shot handcannon?

      Watch. Your. Tounge.

      Okay, clearly you haven't seen the ill will  (House of Wolves Hand Cannon)(btw it does 95 damage per shot). 2nd DID I SAY THAT I WANTED TWO SHOT HANDCANNONS! I LIKE USING WEAPONS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO USE. I don't like to use weapons that don't take skill (Like Thorn back then), because that's dumb. 3rd Please, I've seen both Thorn and TLW before patch 2.0.0.0 came out. YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS LIKE TO BE FREAKING SHOT BY THE SAME 2 WEAPONS EVERY TIME! IT GETS FREAKING ANNOYING. 4th, I DIDN'T SAY ANY EASY TO USE WEAPON IS BALANCED. 

      Look, what I don't like is that Bungie put the HIGHEST DAMAGE as a Exotic Hand Cannon (It actually has the same damage number stat as the Ill Will) But it freaking doesn't do a 2 shot headshot kill!

      So was I asking for a two shot headshot Hand Cannon, no. I was asking for Bungie to fix The First Curse. It has wayyyyyy to low of a Magazine:Rate of Fire ratio. If it had more bullets in the mag, it would be more useful. So, again I was not asking for a two shot headshot Hand Cannon.

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    • Also, I don't want another two shot headshot Hand Cannon, it be too overpowered, if they did, then Crucible would be dead

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    • You're literally saying they should make The First Curse a 2-shot kill. And then you're saying they shouldn't. The contradiction is intense.

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    • ReDquinox wrote:
      You're literally saying they should make The First Curse a 2-shot kill. And then you're saying you shouldn't. The contradiction is intense.

      Sorry if you're confused. I don't want the First Curse to be a 2 shot headshot. The reason why I said fix it Bungie because the magazine for it is wayyyy to small. Having a perk that says "More accuracy and range after getting a headhsot." You need at least 10 bullets when using it with the perk. (or a refill). Since they fixed this weapon's perk, it really helps now. IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW, I WAS OUT FOR 1 and a half week not playing Destiny. So I was out for one of the most important things.

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    • Brah, TFC is a good gun and no I don't run around with a shotty, as I have no decent shotguns other than my chaperone. I prefer the defiance of yasmin for non level advantaged play and the thousand yard stare for trials and iron banana. Don't get angry at me for testing an idea, because you're wasting your own breath as well as mine....

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    • see, when you miss a week and a half of Destiny, you're not caught up (that's me). I saw the update earlier for the 1st time, TFC is pretty good now. Second, I never said u run with a shotty

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    • Wow. The rage was intense there for a bit. ;)

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    • Knight of glory's rise wrote:
      Wow. The rage was intense there for a bit. ;)

      "ALL THE TIME!"

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    • OxMr ConflictxO wrote:
      Knight of glory's rise wrote:
      Wow. The rage was intense there for a bit. ;)
      "ALL THE TIME!"

      That's usually me and my family when we debate about random things

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    • lol

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    • 316 Inward Lamp adept with full auto third eye and small bore and a 310 year 2 The Ram. That's what I got from flawless on friday.

      I also picked up the Righteous Vll, Great auto rifle, especially the one you buy from the new monarchy. 

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    • Nice.

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    • Knight of glory's rise wrote: I understand that most people think it's not really a serious thing to overuse strong language. And I might have to agree with that. It really is not that serious. But useing it to often makes it such that it can't really serve it's intended purpose anymore. That being, to lend extra weight to a specific statement, or grab attention. If people are always throwing explatives around, they are useless. I think you are destroying what was a viable facet of the english language. This is going to sound a bit odd to you, but I think of countering overuse as a service to the community.

      Let me help with some grammar issues bud: I understand that<that is unnecessary> most people think it's not really a serious thing to overuse strong language. And I might have to <too> agree with that. It really is not that serious. But useing <using> it to <too> often makes it such that it can't really serve it's <its without apostrophe> intended purpose anymore <anymore is unnecessary>. That being, to lend extra weight to a specific statement, or grab attention. If people are always throwing explatives <expletives> around, they are useless. I think you are destroying what was a viable facet of the english language. This is going to sound a bit odd to you, but I think of countering overuse as a service to the community.

      While I appreciate your personal opinion and morality, I think you have tried too hard to express why you choose to not curse and unintentionally left lengthy messages that seemingly adopted a condescending tone. My suggestion for you the next time something like this occurs is to simply say something like, "I personally don't like or condone cursing" and leave it at that. Good luck.

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    • Cubby85 wrote:

      Knight of glory's rise wrote: I understand that most people think it's not really a serious thing to overuse strong language. And I might have to agree with that. It really is not that serious. But useing it to often makes it such that it can't really serve it's intended purpose anymore. That being, to lend extra weight to a specific statement, or grab attention. If people are always throwing explatives around, they are useless. I think you are destroying what was a viable facet of the english language. This is going to sound a bit odd to you, but I think of countering overuse as a service to the community.

      Let me help with some grammar issues bud:

      I understand that<that is unnecessary> most people think it's not really a serious thing to overuse strong language. And I might have to <too> agree with that. It really is not that serious. But useing <using> it to <too> often makes it such that it can't really serve it's <its without apostrophe> intended purpose anymore <anymore is unnecessary>. That being, to lend extra weight to a specific statement, or grab attention. If people are always throwing explatives <expletives> around, they are useless. I think you are destroying what was a viable facet of the english language. This is going to sound a bit odd to you, but I think of countering overuse as a service to the community.

      While I appreciate your personal opinion and morality, I think you have tried too hard to express why you choose to not curse and unintentionally left lengthy messages that seemingly adopted a condescending tone. My suggestion for you the next time something like this occurs is to simply say something like, "I personally don't like or condone cursing" and leave it at that. Good luck.

      Why are you even correcting his grammar in the first place? There was nothing that wrong with it.

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    • im giving pointers as his writing style and demeanor include thoughtful and mature and respectable words showcasing his vocabulary and ability to express his message. So these are small things that can elevate his writing skills. That's why I chose to "correct" him. And as far as his grammar goes, although you don't think there is much wrong with it, I found several small discrepancies that I chose to point out. Thanks for your comment.

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    • Cubby85 wrote:

      Knight of glory's rise wrote: I understand that most people think it's not really a serious thing to overuse strong language. And I might have to agree with that. It really is not that serious. But useing it to often makes it such that it can't really serve it's intended purpose anymore. That being, to lend extra weight to a specific statement, or grab attention. If people are always throwing explatives around, they are useless. I think you are destroying what was a viable facet of the english language. This is going to sound a bit odd to you, but I think of countering overuse as a service to the community.

      Let me help with some grammar issues bud:

      I understand that<that is unnecessary> most people think it's not really a serious thing to overuse strong language. And I might have to <too> agree with that. It really is not that serious. But useing <using> it to <too> often makes it such that it can't really serve it's <its without apostrophe> intended purpose anymore <anymore is unnecessary>. That being, to lend extra weight to a specific statement, or grab attention. If people are always throwing explatives <expletives> around, they are useless. I think you are destroying what was a viable facet of the english language. This is going to sound a bit odd to you, but I think of countering overuse as a service to the community.

      While I appreciate your personal opinion and morality, I think you have tried too hard to express why you choose to not curse and unintentionally left lengthy messages that seemingly adopted a condescending tone. My suggestion for you the next time something like this occurs is to simply say something like, "I personally don't like or condone cursing" and leave it at that. Good luck.

      Thanks for the pointers. I agree with most of the corrections you made, with he exception of the second. I think "too" is used when something is too much, too long, some type of excess. Alternativly, you use it in order to identify with something else. Ex: I'd like an icecream too.

      You make a fair point. I see in hind sight that the message I used was over much. That said, I have had rather negative reactions in the past when I simply say "I don't condone cursing." Most often, all I get in reply to a message like that is a string of more curses.

      Again, with the advantage of hind sight, I realized that the Wikia system, or at least that part of it with good repute, is not likely to give me such a response.

      TL;DR Good point. Thanks.

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    • Im glad you wrote Knight as I was hoping to extend a personal apology for the way my original message came out. I see now after an objective opinion from another that it came across condescending and rude even. I admire your grammar skills and honestly we don't find that much in our culture.

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    • I understand. Thank you for the compliment.

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    • A FANDOM user
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